Championing Inclusion With Mike Hess

In this episode of Unstoppable @ Craig, we welcome Mike Hess, executive Director and Founder of the Blind Institute of Technology (BIT). Mike's journey from a misdiagnosed childhood to leading a nonprofit that champions employment for people with disabilities is nothing short of extraordinary. 

We dive deep into the creation of BIT and the innovative strategies to place talented professionals with disabilities into meaningful roles. Mike shares insights on how technology can provide reasonable accommodations and the ongoing challenge of overcoming bias for true belonging. This episode is a call to action for leaders everywhere to embrace thoughtful policies, passionate allies, and the courage to champion inclusivity for all.

For more information, transcriptions and behind-the-scene photos, visit https://craighospital.org/unstoppable

Craig Hospital is a nationally recognized neurorehabilitation hospital and research center specialized in the care of individuals who have sustained a spinal cord injury (SCI) and/or a brain injury (BI). Located in Denver, Colorado, Craig Hospital is an independent, not-for-profit, 93-bed national center of excellence that has treated thousands of people with SCI and BI since 1956. Learn more: https://craighospital.org

Transcript

Jandel Allen-Davis 0:01

Welcome to Unstoppable at Craig, where we pull back the curtain on what makes healthy workplace cultures click and what happens when people are empowered to expand the boundaries of what is possible. We'll explore the perspectives of employees and leaders who have carte blanche to speak their truths, tell their stories and unlock uncommon ways of approaching challenges. I'm Dr Jandell Allen CEO and President of Preg Hospital, a world-renowned rehabilitation hospital that exclusively specializes in the neuro-rehabilitation and research of patients with spinal cord and brain injury. Join me as we learn from people who love what they do and what happens when fear doesn't stifle innovation Stifle Innovation.

Jandel Allen-Davis 0:45

I am so thrilled to have the opportunity to spend time with Mike Hess, who's from the Blind Institute of Technology. He's an old colleague, friend buddy, who I met several years ago, and I remember some of what we talked about around opportunities for employment for people with, in the case we were talking about, who are visually impaired in different ways or had low visibility in terms of vision, and it's been something that not only has stuck with me since our time together, and there have been many times over the years, in different settings. In particular, though, in this last five years since I came to Craig Hospital that I've thought about you or your name has come up, or I've told folks about you. So it's a real honor and privilege to get to do this together, and I haven't seen you in so many years, so that was fun too. But what I think would be a great way to start is just to tell us about you and the work you're doing in the world.

Mike Hess 1:40

Thank you, jandell, and I really it's my honor, it's my pleasure to be here in person, right Like with you again. Our conversations have always been enlightening and spirited and I love talking to you. Know, change maker practitioners. Right Like a lot of people talk about being a change maker. However, the seat that you are currently sitting in is done so by somebody who actually wants to affect change versus just talk about change.

Mike Hess 2:13

But for your listeners, my name is Mike Hess and I'm executive director and founder at a Colorado-based nonprofit truly making a global difference, now called blind institute of technology bit, and I've been legally blind, or blind my entire life started as youth uh, legally blind. And at the time, jandel, I had no idea and I grew up in a small town, northeast ohio, and it was first grade that you know you. They send kids down to the nurse's office, I'm suspecting, and you stick your head in some kind of like helmet thing and the nurse says you know what's the color of the closest balloon? And I'm like no idea. And so the small town optometrist really small town, you know go in there. My mom makes an appointment and the optometrist didn't have powerful enough equipment and said your son is faking it.

Mike Hess 3:03

Here's a placebo pair of glasses and keep them six feet from the TV. And my mom knew within hours or days that you know it was BS. And so next town over, next town over, finally, Cleveland Clinic fairly renowned, you know organization in Northeast Ohio. They did some experimental procedures on me at the time and this is in the seventies and you know the the doctor comes out to the waiting room and says, uh, your son's got the earliest onset of macular degeneration that we've ever seen. It was a misdiagnosis, but the idea of a retinal degenerative disease was in play. He says your son's going to be totally blind by time he turns 18. And so I look up at my mom you know I'm seven years old and I said, mom, what's blind? Yeah, and with the strength, he turns 18. And so I look up at my mom you know I'm seven years old and I said, Mom, what's blind? And with the strength of only a mother, only a lioness. She says it just means you're going to be special.

Jandel Allen-Davis 3:52

Yeah, and you know what's beautiful is even up to that point, in terms of how you'd been included and how you'd been received by those who loved you, that you had no concept of what blindness meant. That's a.

Mike Hess 4:06

That's amazing the world is not built for people who are blind, visually impaired and really the broader disability community. Yeah right, I mean it, just it's just not. And so my mom, like literally, like I always say, like uh, gently nudged uh, which sometimes was a firm foot to butt and say you know like like a mom should, and she was there when I clearly fell down.

Mike Hess 4:27

She was there after I got hit by my first car. Again, the world is not built, it's not designed universally for people with disabilities, and so my mom's always been there to kind of gently get me out there but also pick me up when I needed it.

Jandel Allen-Davis 4:44

Talk about your after-you home sorts of days in terms of how you find yourself doing the amazing work you're doing now, which was on a much smaller scale when I met you, when you were talking global, when we met a few weeks ago. It's like whoa you know, timing.

Mike Hess 4:59

Timing is I mean, you know this, Jan Dale timing is so, so like it just seems to happen when it happens and sometimes it's the perfect timing. So shortly after high school I was at a local community college here in the Denver metro area and my access teacher had told me about a program. So this is early 90s. So right after the Americans with Disabilities Act passed in July of 1990, IBM sent out grant dollars to a handful of community colleges across the country, and one of those community colleges just happened to be the Community College of Denver and the program was called Computer Training for People with Disabilities. And that program was exactly what it sounded like and I had no idea what a computer programmer was. But I was engaged to my now wife and she was married prior, so I was married to like a ready made family, and so my you had some work to do.

Jandel Allen-Davis 5:51

I had some work to do and I said so how much does a computer programmer make Like I?

Mike Hess 5:55

was that's right I was motivated by the Benjamins, you know, and fortunately I had aptitude for logic and it was a pretty intensive program, 56 credit hours and three semesters but that was my entree into tech and so I worked 20 years in the private industry as a computer programmer, got other Cisco certs and that sort of thing. So you know, I always spoke tech and I was pretty good at tech. But one thing was just always evident to me, that I was always, always, always the token blind person.

Mike Hess 6:28

But quite honestly, Jendo, it wasn't just blindness. Like I knew with my cane, I never bumped into anybody in a wheelchair, never heard of anybody using sign language as our primary means of communication, and neurodiversity was absolutely not talked about. Now, clearly, in tech, I worked around people who are neurodivergent. However, you just it's. It's this taboo conversation, and so so I, after you know, 20 years, I started doing some digging about like, okay, well, who's addressing this lack of representation? And there's a lot of great nonprofits across the country, across the globe, that are, you know, doing advocacy and education work, but I couldn't find any of them that are addressing the unemployment epidemic.

Jandel Allen-Davis 7:05

Talk about that unemployment, because that was one of the startling things that when we first talked by phone, I believe back in the day.

Mike Hess 7:13

They actually say that one in five Americans identify with some sort of disability. Now, think about that from because they also chronic disease is considered debilitating, invisible or non-apparent right. So if you think about, uh, so depression, anxiety, right, and in today's day and age I mean even post pandemic, who isn't it, at least temporarily, you know, incapacitated by anxiety and depression? Right, another, another presidential year and oh, oh, my God, it's going to? You know, like all of that affects us as human beings. And so disability is a lot more pervasive than what. It's not just the sensory right Like, so it's easy to see, cause I have a cane or a service dog or somebody who's in a wheelchair, or somebody with a limb difference who's got a prosthetic right, those are, those are kind of the easy visual things. Or if you see somebody signing with sign language, those are the easy ones to kind of identify.

Mike Hess 8:07

But the largest group is actually the invisible or non-apparent. It's interesting spending again 20 years in corporate, every year, jandell, like there would always be sexual harassment training every single year. I never had any kind of disability orientation training, you know. And in corporate America we have this other kind of obstacle that no other inclusion demographic has to overcome, which is reasonable accommodation, and most HR, most HR representatives, they're not truly qualified to understand what reasonable accommodations are right. And so you add up all of these like OK, so the topic of disability is never talked about. It's kind of. It makes people feel a little uncomfortable. And then you have this reasonable accommodation legislation and regulations and voila, you have this unemployment number that is staggering.

Employment Opportunities for People With Disabilities

Jandel Allen-Davis 9:02

It's staggering In my view. It's such wasted potential and I want to get into that in a little bit, but I want to go back to Blind Institute. So you're activated, you are, you are ready to do something different after 20 years of experiencing and sensing what wasn't going on in the workforce.

Mike Hess 9:22

Yeah, and I. So I left my six figure income 11 and a half years ago now, single family income, right. So the support again go back. My, my wife, my, my biggest cheerleader, uh, the strength of a lioness who was there too. She's like I, I'm here, I support you. Um, I believe in what you want to create.

Mike Hess 9:43

And Blind Institute of Technology, or BIT, and again, the tech, the technologist that I am, I took the binary bit, which is a zero and one, and created the acronym Blind Institute of Technology. But I truly believe technology is the greatest equalizer right From the Wright brothers to the pencil has always been there to help humanity overcome its obstacles, and in the digital age, technology is absolutely essential for somebody like me, but other people with disabilities, to have a quality of life, let alone their own ability to earn their nickel Right. So that's what BIT and I started BIT with. It's all about employment, yes, and we actually. What's unique about us as a nonprofit is our business model. We act as a nonprofit staffing agency Amazing, yeah. And so there are brands, you know super fun brands, from JPMorgan Chase to CVS, allstate, salesforce, davida Healthcare, here, locally, first Bank, elevation's Credit Union they pay us to find them talent within the professionals with disabilities community to support their inclusion efforts around people with disabilities and it speaks volumes about them.

Jandel Allen-Davis 10:58

As you were saying, some of those certainly the local brands that are also national, let's face it. I see their leaders and friends with some of their leaders, or know them, and I just want to say thank you to you all out there who knew there's something there Because, frankly, we're wasting talent and we can no longer afford to do. It is my belief and you're making a difference.

Mike Hess 11:19

And I started this as a nonprofit though, because, quite honestly, I wanted the mission to be able to open up doors right, like I needed, cause there were a lot of leaders like yourself again, change makers who want to make a difference versus you know, like I'm coming in just to make a dime, yeah Right, and so so, leveraging, you know, the mission to open up these doors for us and we do keep track. So we've we've actually, from an employment perspective, over 11 years, it's over 300 individuals that we've gotten people placed, and what placement looks like is just like a lot of other organizations. Some of them are just project-based, some of them are part-time hires, some, some of them are full-time hires, some of them just staff org right, they bring us in on a contingency basis. So we make it as simple as we can for any organization who just says you know what we want to dip our toe into that BIT pond. Most organizations and again, I say most because Craig is uniquely like, again, craig is a unique situation because it's all about disability, right.

Mike Hess 12:25

And getting people back to living their best lives, yeah exactly, and so, however, most organizations like it's not a topic and so, coming in with organizational development, training that helps, and we literally have like a you know kind of a step one, step two, step three. Like we have this tiered training to help organizations start to feel much more comfortable and, and I dare say, confident with this very squishy, right conversation around disability. So we we literally have trainings for an organization to feel more, more confident, right, ultimately. And then when we get people in there, then it's that like we don't want to just do one and done, we want to cultivate that relationship right, and so it's. So. I love being a non-profit because it's all about relationships. Ultimately, I'm in sales, but I I don't know anything about sales, jandel, but relationships, it's just, you know it's, it's, it's all about relationships. Ultimately, I'm in sales, but I don't know anything about sales, jandell. But relationships, it's just, you know, it's caring about, like, what you're aiming to do as a leader and is there a way that we can help?

Jandel Allen-Davis 13:34

Our job here is that we are focused on independence and at the core of it. There's a lot of components to independence, but one for sure is financial and economic independence and the ability to self, ability to be self-sufficient that way and jobs are a part of that when you are visually impaired or blind, there is a heightening of other senses that are used that we who can see may not be necessarily. Despite seeing, we can be completely missing in terms of interactions with people. Can you talk about that?

Mike Hess 14:10

So there's kind of a myth like, oh, you know, your ears must be so much better, and I'm like, yeah, ask my wife. So you know, full disclosure. I'm still a dude, I have very selective hearing at times, right? So, joking aside, it's about focus and there's so much. There's like the brain, the neuroscientists like they're able to prove, like it's not necessarily like, oh, like you're, you've got heightened senses because you're blind, it's actually because of focus. So I'm I'm forced to focus clearly and I always say like I was, I was, I am a really good technologist and it's because of my blindness.

Mike Hess 14:51

So when I'm talking to you know the business cause, you know business requirements come down. It's the business who has per strings, so they've got the budget to say we want this to be done with our technology. Who has purse strings? So they've got the budget to say we want this to be done with our technology. Like my projects that I managed were always on time and on budget and really it's.

Mike Hess 15:05

I think again I go back to it was because I was focused on what they were asking and then I was asking questions so I wasn't visually distracted, right with everything else, all the other stuff that's going on in the room and everything, like I'm laser, I'm laser focused, right, even though I'm not, you know, looking at you. I am focused on you because I don't have any other visual. You know, I'm not like, oh, squirrel, you know I don't, I don't have that, janelle and there. So there have been times, uh, we've sent talent to you know employers and, and I'll have you know, the employer reach out and like, hey, thank you for sending you know, the person with the pink hair to us. And I'm like huh, and they're like, oh wait, and like like, yeah, sorry, do you mean so-and-so? And they're, and they're like, oh, yeah, you, you wouldn't, you wouldn't know. And I'm like, so we think about, if you extrapolate that like how much of the hiring process is determined based on somebody's visual appearance.

Mike Hess 16:03

It's bias, it is Thank you. Jandell, and it's color of skin. You know a bling tattoos, what they're wearing, cultural differences Like, and I don't. I and here's the thing I don't see any of that Like, quite honestly. Like what an advantage I have during the hiring process, because I'm really focused on what, the content that's coming out of somebody's mouth and the skills that they're displaying Wow.

Jandel Allen-Davis 16:28

And so the people that you end up placing. What's the success rate, what's the retention rate?

Mike Hess 16:33

So, we're how we're, that's, we're killing it on that Like, so like. We have statistics. So our, our medium salary that people are getting hired in is more than 60K a year, which is again so we're focused on you know, you know solid, not you know business, back office, business oriented skills and after five years of employment, 63% have been promoted at least once, and an average salary after five years of more than 140K.

Empowerment and Inclusion in the Workplace

Jandel Allen-Davis 16:56

Oh my goodness, so they're not just there, just you know they are. They're killing it. Oh my goodness. Equity, diversity, inclusion and accessibility because we are very clear about the A here at Craig and continue to talk about it more in community, as much as possible in community. There's work for the employer to do. How do we create inclusive workplaces that respect difference, and one of them is this whole topic of reasonable accommodations. You've already used that word once in our interview today, but how do you think about it and how do you work alongside employers to talk about what's a reasonable accommodation?

Mike Hess 17:56

Sure, yeah, and what are kind of our step two in our trainings? We call it empowerment training. So please forgive me, I don't. I don't like the term disability etiquette.

Jandel Allen-Davis 18:05

I don't think technology it is how people with disabilities are going to be successful.

Mike Hess 18:27

And so when you talk about the technology component, that means you got to have a mindset inside the organization of just realizing, like okay, so think about this from an anxiety perspective. Like there's apps on your smart devices now that keep track of your, your heart rate and everything else.

Mike Hess 18:43

So if you're having an anxiety attack, right, you're, you're at, like it's so, technology, so it's not just a blindness thing, right, we know this. For if you've got diabetes, right, like there's all these technologies that aren't it's not just for blind people, but so to for an organization to realize like, oh so, technology is the reasonable accommodation. So if we, if we go to that extreme, right, so it doesn't matter if it's blindness or if it's deafness, right, with closed captioning, all that sort of thing, or if it's, you know, chronic diseases, that like, so technology is the reasonable accommodation. What do we not expect technology to help us with? Right, because technology is like it's everywhere, it is.

Mike Hess 19:21

Right and so. So for organizations just to realize like, oh so technology is the solution. Yeah, technology is the solution. But we need leadership to just acknowledge that Right and start to be like almost take this like a little bit of a breath and be like, oh okay, I get it, so technology is the solution. Because then when leaders start thinking of me as somebody who's blind, that technology is the solution, they're like, oh yeah, we use technology for everything.

Jandel Allen-Davis 20:10

And the reality is the ability to do this is super recent when you consider 11 years ago, when you started the Blind Institute of Technology, relative to what these little things called smartphones can do these days, what eye gaze technology can do for someone who's unable to express themselves vocally. The ability of devices now to open doors, to make your home smart, smart homes yep.

Jandel Allen-Davis 20:22

We as employers have work to do around what it means to work alongside people and have truly an organization that's built on a framework of inclusion and belonging. And let technology be part of that, but aren't there other parts?

Mike Hess 20:37

So the big hairy monster in the room is bias, is for real. Like I tell people all the time I'm blind, not dead. I can feel, you know, like, so, my, my wife, you know, for example, she brought me into the building today, right, generally speaking. So when my, my wife is, like you know, acting as my sherpa, at that point you know like people will be, they'll talk. So, even though I'm asking the question again, I can hear that they're answering my wife, not me, because there's there's this uncomfortableness around disability and I can feel that, as a as a blind person, we bring our training into organizations. We call it empowerment. It's not disability etiquette, it's empowered. We want to empower organizations and leaders to feel more confident around us Because, if we think about this, jando, disability is part of the human condition. If we're so lucky to live, to be 90 or in our centurion ages, like father, I have some disabilities.

Jandel Allen-Davis 21:34

Yeah, father time is undefeated.

Mike Hess 21:36

Right Our cognitive is going to diminish. Our motor skills are going to diminish. Right Our sight is going to diminish our hearing. So disability is part of the human condition and yet we're terrified to talk about it.

Jandel Allen-Davis 21:48

The interesting thing about what you're bringing up is the cultural elements needed to support an inclusive workplace where people feel like they belong, regardless's regardless of ability.

Mike Hess 22:00

So that's leadership, that's leadership and that's like talk about that. It's you, it's jandell, it's it's leaders like you who and and call it like eight, nine years ago, when we first were talking the organization you were previously in, even though you were you in your level, and I think you were a vice president or something- at the time like you, you, you wanted to make things happen for BIT.

Mike Hess 22:24

Even at that time you were shackled, you were hamstrung, you were incapable. You were unable to do this because of the lack of initiative or intention from your leadership. So I love ERG, brg. So employment resource groups, business resource groups, these are all great to feel you know, belonging and all that kind of stuff. However, no initiative is going to take off and be supported without leadership saying we're going to do this and it doesn't mean like we're spending millions and millions of dollars.

Mike Hess 22:56

No, no, no. Our training is ridiculously cheap. Again, we're a nonprofit. Our staffing costs are ridiculously cheap. It's all about the. So, again, an HR manager is not going to do anything, working with us without the initiative.

Jandel Allen-Davis 23:09

For somebody like you, I feel somewhat compelled to say this isn't an ad for BIT, this is basic relational relationship education. Cause what I hear you saying and this isn't given away, your secret sauce or anything is that this is doable with will and intention from leadership.

Mike Hess 23:29

We want to create this, this feeling, this inclusive feeling, with organizations like to realize, like, because at the end of our mission as a nonprofit is gainful employment for this community, right, there's going to be such a shortage in talent that leaders are going to have to start like saying, all right, I looked under that rock. I looked under that rock, oh, here's a rock I didn't even know existed and that it's not like this mystical place we are. It's just like. Is your environment truly like? Again, think it is your website. It's just like. Is your environment truly like? Again, think it is your website.

Jandel Allen-Davis 24:02

Now, craig is totally unique, right, but does your website have representation from people of color, people from the relationship orientation differences, people with disabilities to include people with canes and are using sign language. I have an opinion about what I'm about to ask you, but of all the disabilities, which ones can be most challenging for employers, and why?

Mike Hess 24:23

So in our trainings we use Daniel Kahneman, who's a.

Mike Hess 24:27

Nobel Prize winning economist.

Mike Hess 24:30

So loss aversion is a again Nobel Prize winning theory and it has to do with economics.

Mike Hess 24:37

However, when you read his books and you read his material, it's even beyond just economics, and because loss is something that we as human beings have this aversion towards, whether it's economics or otherwise.

Mike Hess 24:52

So if you think about somebody who's in a wheelchair, somebody with a limb difference, a prosthetic, somebody who's blind, and or somebody who you can actively see using sign language, right, those visible disabilities, it immediately invokes this loss aversion. So, just off the you know, like my immediate gut feeling, so when people can see that, that immediate loss aversion will kick in. And so therefore, like in, loss aversion is named because p a human beings, unless you're a sociopath, unless you're a sociopath, um, so uh, you have the ability to feel empathy, right, and so the vast majority of humans can feel empathy. And so if you're able to put yourself in my shoes or in my wheelchair, you immediately are like oh my gosh, I don't know how I, I don't know how I would do this, I don't know how I would do that, I don't know. So to me it's a very psychological experience that's happening, it's an emotional experience, that's happening from the visual sense.

Jandel Allen-Davis 25:57

But it can be overcome.

Mike Hess 25:59

Education from the visual sense, but it can be overcome. Education like again we. We go back to like I just you know, I mean if, if people really struggle with you know somebody, you know people of color, that sort of thing best thing you can do, get a friend that's a person of color and realize that we have more in common as a human race than we have differences you know, I I think about that and know that from the experience of being here five and a half years is that very quickly, I both see our patients, our grads, and I stop seeing.

Jandel Allen-Davis 26:31

I want to see the disability through the lens of all that it brings and how it enriches cultures, enriches our worlds, how it transforms and changes lives Not always for the better. Nobody wants to come to Craig, but it's amazing what, back to you talked about focus from the perspective of blindness. For those who we serve, we have seen people dig deeper and learn things about themselves that they never thought possible. So there's almost this fullness, this sort of living more fully into who you are. So that's what we get to see, and at the same time, I cease to see, as you call it, the losses, this aversion. What did they lose? And it happens real quickly and it's because we're surrounded by them.

Mike Hess 27:16

You've immersed.

Jandel Allen-Davis 27:18

And until we immerse workplaces in folks with disabilities. We'll continue to have this them-us thing. I was going to answer, but now you should ask me the question because I think it would open up another really interesting term.

Mike Hess 27:32

I'm very curious from a leadership perspective right so again, ceo of a really unique special place. Okay, so think back when you first met me and I came in with a cane. So you tell me like what from your perspective?

Jandel Allen-Davis 27:48

Well, it didn't bother me. I guess I'm one of those people who's not, I'm not averted or don't have a strong sense of aversion when I see somebody with a disability. So that's just who I am. Maybe some of it's caring for patients for 25 years and getting the opportunity to see people of all shapes, sizes, colors, stripes, but actually the way I would answer the question in terms of who I think it's most difficult for employers and I think this is an important thing to have some conversation about. It's actually the unseen disability and I don't even know that it's a fair word to use frankly called neurodiversion.

Jandel Allen-Davis 28:28

I think that's the toughest one, because this is the stuff that people. It starts in middle school, it starts in grade school the kid who's different, who gets marginalized, who's shunned, who's bullied. And I'm not sure that workplaces and employers know how to recognize it. And someone said this amazing quote, because this hit me just a few months ago that we are surrounded by people who are different this way. We are surrounded by people who are different this way, and we have workplace policies and rules and all sorts of things that way that may be in conflict or make it difficult for people who are neurodiverse to actually work within the workplace, and someone said the quote was we hire for diversity, we train for conformity. Did you think about that, whether it's neurodivergent?

Jandel Allen-Davis 29:24

or you know, whether neurodivergent, or who is a wheelchair user or has had a brain injury and has some changes that happen that way in terms of how they navigate the world. What's our requirement? How do we, how do we begin to change mindsets of managers and leaders and how do our policies and all have to change in order to really accommodate this, with the understanding that there's still work to do and we do have, I mean, we do have missions and we have purposes.

Mike Hess 29:54

Yeah, if you're attempting to figure out policies and procedure across the entire organization and trying to figure out like, okay, can somebody who's got ASD even high functioning do every single role in your hospital right now? Versus let's find the match right, like to me, it's really it's, it's, it's's. Let's find not not just you as the leader right, but also some one of your other team members who is equally as passionate about making a success story happen. And it's just being thoughtful and it's it to me, it's not just jandel attempting to boil an ocean. It is absolutely like finding the allies like that are on your team and I promise you you have allies on your team.

Jandel Allen-Davis 30:38

Oh, I know I do. I've got a thousand of them yeah.

Mike Hess 30:40

And it's impossible for you to know every. I mean you know you've been in healthcare your whole life there's still, there's a, there's a whole lot of you know functions and stuff that are happening that you know. You probably just you know peripheral about what's going on and I just I feel like there's like you just start 1%, like you're going to find a role that a blind person, a deaf person, somebody with ASD, and here's the beauty about that. So if you can find that one role or that one department here at Craig, you telling me that we can't take that same model to Swedish, to Denver health, to KP, to children's hospital, that's how you, as a leader, create systemic change. It's through 1%.

Jandel Allen-Davis 31:23

Yeah, you know we're seeing more, and it's really been sometimes, I think. Do I see it now because of where I work, or is the world changing? And I think it's a bit of both, but for sure the world is changing.

Jandel Allen-Davis 31:41

We're seeing people who are wheelchair users in advertising and marketing. There are clothing lines that are moving in that direction. We're seeing some changes happening that way. There are days, especially given my journey as an African-American woman, that the change ain't happening fast enough, but it is happening. So I just love to sit back and listen to you get a little ministerial in dream. What do you want this world of employment to look like 10 years, 20 years from now? And I'll get some tissues.

Mike Hess 32:13

Yeah, you know, jandell like.

Jandel Allen-Davis 32:15

Tell me what it looks like, what's not your, not just your institution. But just dream for a bit.

Mike Hess 32:23

I tell people this you know so, like I'll never have a bigot cop put his knee on my neck ever Because I'm Caucasian Like I'll never have that, Jandell, but I've had the fortune 10 000 put their knee on my financial neck my entire life, like I. So the unemployment numbers like again, people can twist numbers however they want, but you see the numbers right, and I stopped asking executives so how many blind people, how many deaf people do you have working for you? It's a really uncomfortable silence, right and so for me. So I started BIT. I'm like 10,000. You got to have a goal. You got to have a big, hairy, audacious goal. Let's get 10,000 people with disabilities gainfully employed. Right, and think about that. That's only one per fortune. 10,000.

Mike Hess 33:13

That is such a low bar to hit and yet you look at the statistics, that seems like a generation away. Like we, in 11 years we've been able to get 300 plus people placed. I'm so thrilled in the stories, the lives that we've impacted, cause I put my, my phone number, my email address is on my website, like I make myself ridiculously available and in the stories, and I do this because that I work for them. I work for that population that is omitted like it's. It's bad here in the United States, it is horrible everywhere else and I work for them and it's just like I don't ever want to not be available to this community, this amazing community. I don't have enough Jandels in my back pocket to get these amazing people working again.

Jandel Allen-Davis 34:01

So we need more people to we need more Jandels, so in 20 years.

Mike Hess 34:08

What's it look like if you're successful, If I'm successful, we've hit our 10,000 in 20 years. But we just quite honestly like, if I can get just one percent of your time and introduce me to one other, I mean just think, think of the power of that right like one ceo introducing me to another ceo, to like, like, like. Yes, we can get 10 000 people with disabilities gainfully employed in 20 years and we need way more than that we need way more than that because that's not going to even solve no-transcript.

Mike Hess 34:36

But all of a sudden you have a benchmark now, yeah, and you have enough data to support like ah, okay, yeah, this is more of a value add than a risk.

Jandel Allen-Davis 34:43

Yeah, when you lay your head on the pillow at night. What makes you most proud about what you do and what you've accomplished as a leader?

Mike Hess 34:53

I've got so many emails of people who like, like, they're, like, you know, you've changed my life. Like it's it's, it's it's our, it's the people. It's why you're the ceo of this, this amazing organization. It's the people that we get to touch and they, they reach out and you know, and, and to me I'm a facilitator, that's all I am right. Like I, I and you know, and to me I'm a facilitator, that's all I am right. Like I facilitate relationships. You know this relationship with that relationship, and these, this talented, you know person with this organization looking like, so I just facilitate, that's all I do, right? Like you know, some of these ideas, yeah, they're, they're mine, but I didn't, you know, like I'm just, I'm a servant, that's all I am. And I think good leaders are servants. That's you.

Championing Diversity and Inclusion in Leadership

Jandel Allen-Davis 35:53

You're here to serve and just be that facilitator of making transactions happen at the end of the day, and I'm super proud of that. And yet I'm like I haven't done enough. The statistics show I haven't done enough. Well, to whatever extent, the shifts that we're seeing in the market and in the world around, and for whatever reason that it's driven because sometimes it's by any means necessary if we can get our workforces, our workplaces, strengthened through the power of this level of diversity, then both of us can put our head on the pillow at night and go well done today. Yeah, Well done today. I appreciate your making time.

Mike Hess 36:20

I so love hearing your voice. I just love reconnecting with you again, I'm honored to be here.

Jandel Allen-Davis 36:26

It's not these strangers.

Mike Hess 36:27

Thank you so much for having me.

Jandel Allen-Davis 36:29

Oh well, thank you. Thank you. All I can say about the interview that we just did is wow. There was a moment where I got tearful. As I said when Mike talked about, I, will never have a bigoted cop with a knee on my neck, but I have plenty of folks or organizations or a world that has a knee on my. Financial potential, I'd say, let alone reality at a given time, the idea of thinking about what is possible in workplaces, that's win-win, I'd say win-win-win for institutions, communities and individuals.

Jandel Allen-Davis 37:12

If we widen the aperture and think about not disability, but actually differently abled and what is actually born, or what arises, what emerges when one finds oneself unable or to do what they used to do or to do things differently, or who were born into less than fully capable, is defined by the, in some ways narrow ways. We think about that as human beings. We need more Mike Hesses. We need more Mike Hesses because we are at a point we all know, looking at the statistics, where we have no other choice and thank God for that that we have no other choice, because we will now be, I hope, motivated more than forced to think about widening our aperture around who is able to work within our organizations, and what beautiful ways they will enrich the tapestry of our organizations, enrich the tapestry of our purpose, of our missions, through doing the little bit and honestly, it is the little bit that's required to accommodate, in reasonable and appropriate fashions, those who need extra help in order to help us all achieve the goals we need to. What does this all have to do with leadership and culture, which is what this podcast, at the heart of it, is about.

Jandel Allen-Davis 38:38

As I listened to Mike and listened to his story, there were so many things that emerged. First, his mother and how she saw him How's that for a play on words as a fully capable human being who didn't realize what blindness was until he was seven. So what had that seven years been like for him? In a way that he saw a place for himself in the world, and he had a mom, he had a champion who did that for him. Where's our leadership courage to be the champions for so many others, I say it takes courage. It takes courage. That's the leadership capacity that I think Mike exemplifies and those he works alongside exemplify and, in turn, are not just changing individual lives but are changing organizational cultures and, in turn, are changing and transforming communities. So with that I want to thank you again for joining us for Unstoppable at Craig. It's just know that I feel a special connection to those of you who make the time to listen and I hope it shifts you just a little bit, if not a big bit. How's that for a play on words?